Legislature(2003 - 2004)

03/18/2004 03:31 PM Senate STA

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
     CSHB  91(FIN)-RETIRED PEACE OFFICER'S MEDICAL BENEFITS                                                                 
                                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                              
CHAIR  GARY STEVENS  reconvened  the meeting  and announced  CSHB
91(FIN) to be up for  consideration and recognized Representative                                                               
Anderson.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE TOM ANDERSON,  sponsor of HB 91,  reported that HB
91 had undergone a lot of  deserved scrutiny in the House Finance                                                               
Committee                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
HB  91   is  about  recruiting  and   retaining  state  troopers,                                                               
firefighters, and  correctional officers  by providing  them with                                                               
medical coverage at  their retirement of 20 years.  "No one would                                                               
disagree that  these men  and women are  risking their  lives and                                                               
their health. ... I think  it's really important to differentiate                                                               
a peace officer versus another  occupation because of that health                                                               
and safety risk."                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
The bill removes  the additional five year  requirement for peace                                                               
officers to receive medical benefits  and reestablished parity by                                                               
allowing  the full  medical benefit  in a  normal retirement.  He                                                               
noted that  the administration has  been working on  "a realistic                                                               
and  workable" fiscal  note and  they  are beginning  to see  the                                                               
potential  in cost  savings.  Peace officers  pay  a higher  PERS                                                               
contribution  to compensate  for  their fewer  years of  required                                                               
service before  normal retirement, he  said and that  fact should                                                               
be taken into consideration.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He asked members  to note the letters of support  and pointed out                                                               
that  Representative  Hawker  asked   for  and  received  written                                                               
assurance from  the Municipality  of Anchorage stating  that this                                                               
wouldn't adversely affect their budget.  It is relevant, he said,                                                               
that the bill came out of the House with so many cosponsors.                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He observed that Kevin Richie  of the Alaska Municipal League was                                                               
in the  audience and  would undoubtedly  speak against  the bill,                                                               
but to  refute his testimony he  said, "this is a  balance. We're                                                               
losing  men and  women  to borough,  federal, [and]  out-of-state                                                               
jobs. Recruiting is tougher and  tougher and this is an incentive                                                               
for them. They've  certainly put in their time. No  one will deny                                                               
that."  He  asked the  committee  to  address any  state  affairs                                                               
issues  and pass  the  bill  on to  the  Finance Committee  where                                                               
fiscal concerns could be addressed.                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  BERT STEDMAN  said he  could appreciate  the request  to                                                               
pass fiscal concerns along to  the Finance Committee and he could                                                               
understand  why  there is  a  lot  of  interest in  the  proposed                                                               
changes. "I think most folks,  given the options, would work less                                                               
and  retire  with more  benefits."  This  increases cost  to  the                                                               
communities in a financially challenging  time. He questioned why                                                               
the  bill  was coming  forward  now  instead  of later  when  the                                                               
committee  could respond  to  the funding  issue  under the  PERS                                                               
system.                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON replied the  ever-present question is why                                                               
bring forward a  bill that may cause added burden.  The answer is                                                               
because there is a balance here.  "It comes down to where we have                                                               
critical  mass and  problem and  where we  don't." The  reason he                                                               
sponsored the bill  is because of the  difficulty associated with                                                               
recruitment  and retention.  Giving  this benefit  isn't as  much                                                               
about whether  these people  are deserving;  it's more  about the                                                               
necessity of  keeping these  people applying  for and  working in                                                               
these jobs.  "We felt  it was  becoming a  detriment not  to have                                                               
better  retirement.  We  wanted  to  correct  back  to  what  the                                                               
retirement used  to be." This  is a  change that is  necessary he                                                               
insisted.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN remarked that all  the current PERS issues aren't                                                               
related  to   rising  healthcare  costs,  but   those  costs  are                                                               
substantial  and  this bill  would  increase  the weighting.  The                                                               
inability to  accurately predict  increasing medical costs  is of                                                               
great concern.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
Referring to a  letter from the City of Fairbanks,  he noted that                                                               
they  oppose   this  bill  because   of  the   increased  funding                                                               
requirement  that they  are already  facing for  their retirement                                                               
package. This  is a contractual  obligation and therefore  is not                                                               
open for renegotiation. "There is  a five percent cap increase on                                                               
their  contributions every  year. They  were up  against the  cap                                                               
last year and are up against  the cap this year and will probably                                                               
be up against the cap again  the following year." It's creating a                                                               
substantial  impact  on  the municipalities'  general  funds  and                                                               
cutting services is  about their only option.  Because some would                                                               
look at  this as an  unfunded mandate, he asked  what suggestions                                                               
he might have for municipalities.                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON replied that is  a good question, but the                                                               
mayor of the  largest city in the state is  on record saying that                                                               
they would find ways to comply.  He said he would hope that other                                                               
communities would  do the  same. The funding  debate could  go on                                                               
forever and everyone could pass  the buck, but with a partnership                                                               
it can  be done. He wasn't  sure what prompted Fairbanks  to send                                                               
the letter  as recently as  today when  the bill has  been around                                                               
for more than  a year. The Fairbanks police  certainly approve of                                                               
the bill. He said.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY  said he has  been involved with police  and fire                                                               
for a  long time and he  found that dispatchers experience  a lot                                                               
of burnout and he wasn't  sure whether they have early retirement                                                               
now or not.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON thought that  Representative Hawker had a                                                               
bill addressing that issue.                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   COWDERY  commented   that   he   thinks  they   deserve                                                               
consideration as much as anyone else.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE ANDERSON pointed out that  Mike Fox would say that                                                               
this bill  isn't costing any money  in the end because  the state                                                               
loses  when  well-trained  officers  leave early.  If  a  captain                                                               
retires after  20 years service  and a  sergeant comes in  as the                                                               
replacement, there is  a pay differential. "It's  our belief that                                                               
it's not  as expensive as submitted."  He deferred to Mr.  Fox to                                                               
respond to Senator Cowdery's comment.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GARY STEVENS  opened public testimony and asked  Mr. Fox to                                                               
begin.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MIKE FOX,  Public Safety Employees  Association employee,  gave a                                                               
7-minute power point presentation on HB 91.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Analysis:  This  bill  provides  medical  benefits  for                                                                    
     peace officers at normal  retirement instead of working                                                                    
     5 years beyond normal retirement.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     It  removes the  disincentives  for  peace officers  to                                                                    
     take  normal retirement  and reestablishes  parity with                                                                    
     all the PERS members.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The  Public  Employees  Retirement System  Mission:  On                                                                    
     January  1, 1961,  the  Alaska Legislature  established                                                                    
     the Public  Employee Retirement  System to  attract and                                                                    
     retain   qualified  people   in   the  public   service                                                                    
     employment.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     Who  is,  by  statute,  affected by  this  bill:  Peace                                                                    
     officers,  firefighters,  chiefs  of  police,  regional                                                                    
     public   safety    officers,   correctional   officers,                                                                    
     correctional superintendents,  probation officers, fire                                                                    
     chiefs.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     The 2003 validation report for  PERS lists 2,893 active                                                                    
     occupation  [indisc.]  members,  but  this  bill  would                                                                    
     affect only Tier II and III members.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
     History of the law:                                                                                                        
     Tier  I:  Major  medical  is provided  to  all  benefit                                                                    
     recipients.                                                                                                                
     Tier II:  - In  1986 HB  252 by  Representatives Duncan                                                                    
     and Miller  created Tier II. Major  medical is provided                                                                    
     at age 60.                                                                                                                 
     Tier III -  Created in 2001. Major  medical is provided                                                                    
     after a 10-year  vesting period at age 60  or at normal                                                                    
     retirement.  Except peace  officers must  work 5  extra                                                                    
     years.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     HB 91 deletes the five extra years for peace officers.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The justification for change includes:                                                                                     
        · The current law withholds benefits from peace                                                                         
          officer members of PERS unless an extra 5 years                                                                       
          is worked.                                                                                                            
        · It undermines the intent of peace officers' own                                                                       
          retirement.                                                                                                           
        · It inhibits recruitment and retention.                                                                                
        · It causes inequality among PERS members.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
     Fiscal Note  2: Approximately $.85 million  - half                                                                         
     from  general  fund money.  Employer  contribution                                                                         
     change  across the  board  is +  .12%  or .97%  if                                                                         
     applied to just police/fire  payroll. For a person                                                                         
     earning   $50,000  per   year,  the   increase  in                                                                         
     employer contribution  would be $60 per  year. $30                                                                         
     a year would be from the general fund.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     The fiscal  note did not  consider any  savings HB
     91 would generate in  operational costs. It's just                                                                         
     one side of the coin.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     [Mr.   Fox  showed   a   graph  showing   employer                                                                         
     contribution  as a  percent  of salary.]  Everyone                                                                         
     talks  about PERS  indebtedness in  PERS and  this                                                                         
     graph  shows that  in  FY90  the contribution  was                                                                         
     about  12  percent.  In  FY 94  it  was  about  17                                                                         
     percent.  This year  it's at  13.42 percent.  This                                                                         
     fiscal note would raise this  by .12 of 1 percent.                                                                         
     So  the  13.42  percent   would  go  up  to  13.54                                                                         
     percent.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     The  employee contribution  is  steady. All  other                                                                         
     PERS members  contribute 6.75 percent  while peace                                                                         
     officer PERS members  contribute 7.5 percent. They                                                                         
     pay  that extra  to compensate  for their  shorter                                                                         
     period of  service required for  normal retirement                                                                         
     - to maintain equality in PERS.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
     The  next  graph   helps  illustrate  turnover  in                                                                         
     corrections and you can see  the decline between 0                                                                         
     and  20. Almost  10 percent  of the  officers have                                                                         
     left in  one year on  the job; another  10 percent                                                                         
     have  left  in two  years  on  the job.  There  is                                                                         
     significant room  for improvement in  retention of                                                                         
     corrections officers.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     The   next  graph   shows  by   year  class,   the                                                                         
     percentage of  troopers still working  compared to                                                                         
     those who have left. You  can see a steady decline                                                                         
     from  year 1  troopers  to year  20 troopers.  The                                                                         
     blank  year classes  are years  where  no one  was                                                                         
     hired.                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
     Improved  retention  equals  savings.  Savings  in                                                                         
     recruiting  and training  are enjoyed  by reducing                                                                         
     turnover.  Recruiting  and trainings  costs  equal                                                                         
     approximately $104,871 per  trooper. Public Safety                                                                         
     provided that number.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     Problems  associated with  peace officers  working                                                                         
     past normal  retirement include:  Increased health                                                                         
     problems,   increased  risk   of  injury,   higher                                                                         
     compensation, lower morale from burnout.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
     This  graph  shows  that  there  is  very  limited                                                                         
     opportunity  for  peace   officers  to  move  into                                                                         
     administrative  positions.   The  top   bar  shows                                                                         
     corrections  officers and  you can  see there  are                                                                         
     over 700 working  on the floor of  the prisons and                                                                         
     there are about 30  administrative officers in the                                                                         
     prisons.  There's  not  much room  for  correction                                                                         
     officers to move off the floors of prisons.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
     In the State Troopers,  there are about 330 people                                                                         
     that are working as  sergeants and troopers, which                                                                         
     are patrol  or investigative positions.  There are                                                                         
     about  33 in  the  administrative positions.  Once                                                                         
     again  you can  see that  it's very  likely for  a                                                                         
     person to  work their entire career  either on the                                                                         
     floor of the prison or on patrol.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     The normal retirement  equals savings. Eliminating                                                                         
     the   current   disincentive    to   take   normal                                                                         
     retirement  will reduce  the  number of  high-cost                                                                         
     20-year officers.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
     Direct savings:  Replacing a 20 year  trooper with                                                                         
     a 1  year trooper will save  approximately $26,644                                                                         
     per  year  in  base  pay  and  leave.  That's  the                                                                         
     difference  between a  1-year  guy  and a  20-year                                                                         
     guy. That  is based solely  on base pay  and leave                                                                         
     with  no  shift   differential,  no  overtime,  no                                                                         
     geographic    differential,     and    no    other                                                                         
     consideration  -  all  of which  would  make  that                                                                         
     higher.                                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
     Replacing a  20-year CO2 with  a 1-year  CO2 would                                                                         
     save  approximately  $18,252  per year  under  the                                                                         
     same conditions.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
     This  is   in  the  first  year.   If  they  defer                                                                         
     retirement  for  five  years, as  is  the  current                                                                         
     policy, you just multiply that  times five and see                                                                         
     if you'll  save any  money when  guys leave  at 20                                                                         
     for the 20 and out.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
     The cost versus savings  balance for this bill: If                                                                         
     20  years are  not  completed  there's no  benefit                                                                         
     change and there's  no cost. The bottom  line - if                                                                         
     a person  doesn't work 20 years  this bill doesn't                                                                         
     affect  them.  There is  no  cost.  If an  officer                                                                         
     retires  at  20  years instead  of  deferring  the                                                                         
     associated savings help balance the cost.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
     It becomes a policy decision.  What do you want to                                                                         
     do? Do  you want  guys to  leave at  20 or  do you                                                                         
     want to keep  them after 20? If  they leave before                                                                         
     20, there is no cost to  you. If your policy is to                                                                         
     keep them beyond 20, there  is a cost but there is                                                                         
     also a savings. It's a policy choice.                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
     In conclusion:  Current law undermines  the intent                                                                         
     of  normal retirement  of  peace  officers and  it                                                                         
     inhibits  PERS mission  to recruit  and retain  in                                                                         
     public  service. HB  91  removes the  disincentive                                                                         
     for peace  officers to take normal  retirement and                                                                         
     reestablishes parity among  all PERS members. It's                                                                         
     good for peace officers and it's good policy.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GARY STEVENS  thanked  Mr.  Fox and  noted  there were  no                                                               
questions.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHARLIE  HANSON, Lemon  Creek corrections  officer, testified  in                                                               
support  of  HB 91.  He  has  an  undergraduate degree  in  human                                                               
development and a  masters degree in human services, is  a Tier I                                                               
employee and has more than 19 years service.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
He recounted  the difficulty, danger  and stress  associated with                                                               
being a  corrections officer. Because inmates  are often involved                                                               
in high-risk behavior, the instances  of HIV, and hepatitis A, B,                                                               
and  C  are   higher  than  the  public   population.  This  puts                                                               
corrections officers  at higher risk and  increases the potential                                                               
need for long-term health care benefits.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He  said he  was  bringing  a message  sent  from  the hearts  of                                                               
correctional   officers   throughout  the   system.   Corrections                                                               
officers  seldom  make  their   20-year  retirement  goal.  "I've                                                               
watched over  250 floor staff  come and go without  reaching that                                                               
magic time of service within  the Lemon Creek Correctional Center                                                               
alone."                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
Recently he asked his superintendent to look back over his 27-                                                                  
year career  and tell him  how many corrections officers  he knew                                                               
of that were able to reach  the 20-year mark. "The figure he came                                                               
up with  was four." That  has since  been increased by  one. "The                                                               
likelihood  that a  corrections  officer will  reach the  20-year                                                               
mark for full  retirement is bad enough. Pushing the  mark to 25-                                                               
years  for  full  medical  benefits is  next  to  impossible  and                                                               
demeaning to us when we are  at risk of serious long-term illness                                                               
because of our jobs."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
"HB 91  will ensure an  appropriate retirement package  for those                                                               
of  us  who  make  it  that  far.  It  isn't  cost  effective  to                                                               
continually pay  to train  new people in  order to  replace those                                                               
who see that the 25-year goal is unobtainable."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
KEVIN RICHIE,  Alaska Municipal  League, apologized  for entering                                                               
the  process   so  recently   and  advised   that  a   number  of                                                               
municipalities recently  joined to form a  PERS committee because                                                               
of the  impact PERS is  having. Currently  the issue is  the five                                                               
percent increase in salary cost  for the retirement program. This                                                               
is a  huge issue  for municipalities because  in addition  to the                                                               
increased 5  percent to the  retirement program, they  are losing                                                               
revenue sharing and  have to take on more  responsibility such as                                                               
DOT match.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Prior to  this year  the average  PERS employer  contribution was                                                               
6.77  percent of  salary. The  new actuary  says that  percentage                                                               
must be increased  to about 25 percent of salary  for each of the                                                               
next 20  years for the  PERS system  to achieve about  90 percent                                                               
funding.   This   year  it's   a   $19-$20   million  cost   that                                                               
municipalities must absorb.  Those that have a cap  have no other                                                               
option than to cut services.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
Certainly municipalities  are very concerned about  any increased                                                               
PERS obligation  and would  like the  opportunity to  address the                                                               
structure  of  the   process.  Currently  municipalities,  school                                                               
districts, and  the University of  Alaska fund two-thirds  of the                                                               
PERS/TRS  system.   Finding  a   way  to   increase  municipality                                                               
involvement in the analysis process  of cost increases and in the                                                               
management of the program would be desirable.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
According to  the fiscal note,  this bill  would amount to  a .97                                                               
percent  annual cost  increase in  police salaries.  The PERS/TRS                                                               
Board is currently  considering a radical overhaul  of the entire                                                               
system so "looking  at the long-term, it's important  to put this                                                               
change in the context of  the system could be radically different                                                               
in a few years for everybody new entering the system."                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GARY  STEVENS summarized that  the primary  testimony spoke                                                               
of the  impact the  bill would  have on  state troopers,  but the                                                               
last testimony related  to city police. He questioned  how to put                                                               
a dollar  figure on that  and asked Mr.  Richie whether he  had a                                                               
fiscal note for local communities.                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICHIE explained  that the annual fiscal  impact would amount                                                               
to the total police salaries multiplied times .97 percent.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR STEDMAN referred to draft  fiscal note number 4 and noted                                                               
that, "using the current  Valuation Assumptions, this legislation                                                               
will increase the PERS accrued liability by $8 million."                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY  asked how  many police in  Anchorage are  Tier I                                                               
employees.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICHIE said he didn't have that information.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COWDERY said,  "We all  agree they're  not all  in PERS,                                                               
right?"                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MR. RICHIE was unable to provide an answer.                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY said,  "I believe some are in PERS  - some of the                                                               
later hires,  but the early  hires I  don't believe are.  I think                                                               
they have their own."                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
There were no further questions or comments for Mr. Richie.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
MELANIE  MILLHORN,  director  of  the Division  of  Retirement  &                                                               
Benefits, said  she would  address her  comments to  draft fiscal                                                               
note number 4.  She agreed with Representative  Anderson that the                                                               
division  has met  with PSEA  and that  they are  looking at  the                                                               
suggested savings,  but at  present they  are unable  to quantify                                                               
the  savings. Therefore  fiscal note  number  4 is  the one  that                                                               
Mercer Human  Resources Consulting  (Mercer) worked on  and those                                                               
are the calculations she would address.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
With regard  to the  concern about turnover  rate, she  said they                                                               
are comfortable with the information  Mercer provided from a 1997                                                               
through 1999  report showing  a 3 percent  turnover rate.  "So we                                                               
don't  have anything  we can  use to  look at  a higher  turnover                                                               
rate.  So the  amount that  would  cost is  correct according  to                                                               
Senator  Stedman. That  is  an $8  million and  it  would be  l97                                                               
percent  for  police and  firefighter  payroll  for the  next  25                                                               
years."  That is  calculated by  looking at  the population  that                                                               
would be impacted and according  to the evaluation report of June                                                               
30, 2002  there are 2,695 police  and firefighter classifications                                                               
for PERS. For that same evaluation  period, the number of Tier II                                                               
and Tier III members was 1,961.  "Those are the members who would                                                               
derive benefit from this piece of legislation."                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
When  Mercer  looks at  retirement  rates  and applies  actuarial                                                               
assumptions,   they  project   that   of   the  1,961   potential                                                               
beneficiaries there  would be 411 that  would anti-select. "Anti-                                                               
select  is  an insurance  term  meaning  that those  parties  who                                                               
derive benefit would make that selection."                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GARY STEVENS apologized for  interrupting, but he wanted to                                                               
know if the data included municipal employees.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILLHORN replied all PERS employees were included.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY chimed  in to ask if he was  correct that not all                                                               
police and fire are in PERS.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLHORN  said it  is  her  understanding  that there  is  a                                                               
different municipal retirement program for some employees.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
Continuing  her testimony,  she repeated  that Mercer  calculated                                                               
that  411 employees  would benefit  from this  legislation, which                                                               
represents about 25  percent of the 1,961 who  would be eligible.                                                               
"For  the State  of  Alaska, the  amount we  would  pay for  this                                                               
legislation would  be $856,000  annually." The  evaluation report                                                               
of  June 30,2002  shows  that PERS  is at  a  75 percent  funding                                                               
ratio. This  means that  if all the  assets and  liabilities were                                                               
calculated and everything  that was due on that date  was in fact                                                               
paid, there would be a 25 percent shortfall.                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
PERS hasn't been in this  funding circumstance for about 20 years                                                               
she warned. There  are two primary drivers that  account for this                                                               
situation. First, healthcare costs  represent about 30 percent of                                                               
the total PERS costs, which  is significant. The second driver is                                                               
the investment earnings.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GARY  STEVENS  asked  whether  the  annual  $856,000  cost                                                               
included municipal costs.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. MILLHORN replied municipal costs  are separate. So the annual                                                               
cost  to the  Municipality of  Anchorage would  be $246,000,  she                                                               
said.                                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GARY  STEVENS noted that there  would be a number  of other                                                               
municipalities that  would be added to  the list if there  were a                                                               
thorough analysis.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MILLHORN  said  yes  and  there are  a  total  of  161  PERS                                                               
employers.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
There were no further questions for Ms. Millhorn.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
MAURICE HUGHES  testified via teleconference  from Kodiak  to say                                                               
that he has been an Alaska State  Trooper for 14 years and he was                                                               
speaking  for  the  330  state  troopers  and  the  other  police                                                               
officers that  are in PERS. The  message he wanted to  impart was                                                               
that, "The policy intending to  influence police officers to work                                                               
beyond  their normal  retirement by  withholding a  retirement is                                                               
wrong."  Burnout is  a  serious  issue in  this  field and  young                                                               
officers  find it  demoralizing to  have to  work the  five extra                                                               
years.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 04-19, SIDE B                                                                                                            
5:45 pm                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
LARRY SEMMENS  testified via  teleconference as  finance director                                                               
for the City of Kenai in opposition  to HB 91. He advised that he                                                               
faxed  opposing resolution  2003-04  from  the Alaska  Government                                                               
Finance Offices  Association. The resolution was  dated April 18,                                                               
2003,  "so although  some  people  were not  aware  of this,  the                                                               
finance officers  were and we  registered our opposition  at that                                                               
time."                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR. SEMMENS reported  that he also sent his  written testimony to                                                               
the committee and  he wanted to read it into  the record as well.                                                               
[A full copy  may be found in the bill  file.] The primary reason                                                               
for  his opposition  is because  the  PERS system  is already  in                                                               
trouble and  this legislation would  cost money. "For  Kenai, the                                                               
unfunded actuarial accrued  liability is $7.4 million  - almost a                                                               
whole year's general  fund budget." He noted  that employers have                                                               
alternatives  to  increasing  retirement  benefits  if  they  are                                                               
having difficulty attracting  and retaining qualified applicants.                                                               
Raising wages  is one such  option and  individual municipalities                                                               
could  even  choose to  pay  health  benefits after  20-years  of                                                               
service. That makes it a local  control issue and not an unfunded                                                               
mandate.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GARY  STEVENS  told  Mr.  Semmens  that  he  received  the                                                               
resolution and letter some time ago.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
He noted  that it was  after 6:00 pm and  he would hold  the bill                                                               
for future  consideration and  the committee  would return  to HB
414.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GUESS  stated that the  bill was straightforward  and you                                                               
should know  where you  stand on  the issue so  she could  see no                                                               
reason why the  committee shouldn't move the bill.  She was ready                                                               
to make a motion.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR GARY STEVENS said he would  accept the motion if she wanted                                                               
to move HB 91.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  HOFFMAN commented  that  the Senate  President spoke  of                                                               
working cooperatively, but he had seen no cooperation that day.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GARY STEVENS  said, "Well  I'm certainly  going to  accept                                                               
that motion if you want to  make it Senator Guess." After a pause                                                               
he asked,  "Senator Guess, if you'll  make a motion fine,  if not                                                               
well go..."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GUESS  replied, "Oh  I'm sorry  I didn't  - I'm  a little                                                               
confused at  where you're running  your meeting. I was  trying to                                                               
find my notes on the amendment of the earlier stuff."                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GARY STEVENS  said, "I'm  ready to  move on  to the  other                                                               
bill,  but if  you'd want  to make  a motion  on HB  91 we  would                                                               
accept it."                                                                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR GUESS replied,  "You're doing a very good  job of putting                                                               
me between failing this bill so  it stops and putting you guys on                                                               
record against  police officers. So  with that, we'll go  to 414.                                                               
If the sponsor left, I will confer with him."                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
CHAIR  GARY STEVENS  announced he  would hold  HB 91  for further                                                               
study.                                                                                                                          

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